[closed] it's nerd talk time

[blitzcheer]

Who: CLU/Faux (ranoutofbuts), Elidibus (wewillwewill), Senku Ishigami (10billionpercent), Seto Kaiba (blue_ice), Emet-Selch (apokroteo), and Esteban (crowneddragon); Tidus is going to snooze, the train is Listening
Where: Quiet carriage
When: 20 Quicksand
What: The train's brought forward answers, the ministry has been in contact, but there's still plenty of questions unanswered. Time to brainstorm possible solutions.
Warnings: nerd talk. ok otherwise

If Tidus didn't know any of these guys, hadn't seen what they could do or heard about it, this half-baked idea wouldn't have the ingredients in the first place to be potentially turned into a cake.

But here they are, each with their own skills and talent. Senku already with his own ideas, and hopefully Elidibus and Seto Kaiba had plenty too since he approached them, giving a gist of what he's thinking about. There would be the room for brainstorming; Tidus didn't doubt that these three will be talking a lot. Him? He'll be the drinks guy, or just sitting to the side guy, barely following the three of them, but interested anyway in what they'd have to say.

The meeting place is in the double quiet room, so they can be comfortable. Take a seat where you like; once everyone's there, Tidus will be the first to speak.

"Alright, let's get started, yeah?" He smiles to each of them, gestures with a hand as he's one to do. "You're the guys with the brains to know if any of this is possible, and if it's even a little, I know you'll work something out."

He motions with his hand to Seto first.

"Back when the train tried sending people home, Seto connected his tech into the ICP in luggage so another guy, Esteban, could try talking to the train. We didn't see anything, but something must've been working - we both saw the tethers of everyone for a split second. Gave us a headache," he remembers with some mirth, "but hopefully, the train can help us with poking around this time."

Next, he glances to Elidibus.

"Elidibus told me he can see people's memories - rewind through them, he can give you the details. We know the train's missing some memories, so if we can find a way of searching and helping with that... there might be other people too who can help with that too."

Especially as Elidibus isn't at a hundred percent, but you know. We won't mention that, but instead look to Senku. "But, in the end, the train's an engine, a - machine brain. Code and stuff. And we have people who can understand code - smart people." He does look at Seto with that, too. "So I think if we can try looking at the train with these different ideas, maybe we can come up with something - to do with its memories, or help another way."

He pauses, then looks up briefly.

"And we don't plan on doing this without letting the train know, so... we're not keeping this a secret. We want the train to help us, so we can help it." He pauses again, and then gives a goofy smile.

"Next part is you guys." Heheh. "Talk away!"

Comments

[crowneddragon]

He'd been following along until Senku went and added more things to consider, and now Esteban is just a tiny bit lost. But it won't stop him anyways; so he buckles down his confusion, tries to split what he can bring on and what he can leave to the experts, and takes a deep breath to try and add to the conversation.

He needs a vocabulary list, darn it.

"Okay, so we wanna have a chat with the train and ask all the questions while it's not busy with other things," he tries to sum up, asking if he got this right because he did just walk in from half a conversation and he just does not want to falter so quickly.

"Questions we can kinda slip into two categories? One side's the sentient, how does it perceive things, how can it tether with people it doesn't even have access to, that kinda thing, and the other's technical--" (and with jargon he doesn't fully understand--) "with how it moves through void--" No wait, Kaiba had mentioned that they knew that-- "things like direction, speed, an' also storms an' how they might affect it?"

Did he get that right?

"Internal workings an' external workings?" He's catching on, right?

[blitzcheer]

Is there nerd talk happening in here again? There's probably nerd talk going on in here again.

But before Esteban can get his answer, the door (one of the doors) opens up to a Tidus appearing inside - apparently, Esteban and Tidus can be seen in the same room. He gives a "Hey!" as he enters, walking in to let his company follow on in after him. Faux, tiny Bit, you can close the door? Thanks.

Tidus will nod to him, looking over at everyone else. "This is Faux, and his new friend?" He looks for a moment towards Faux and the bit, and. Yeah, leave it at that right now. "He's got a lot of experience with computers - he can introduce himself," Tidus realises, or acknowledges with a small chuckle. "I got him up to speed what we're doing."

Faux, you want to take the floor? There are also seats, too. Ooh, is there some apple pie left?

[ranoutofbuts]

Stepping into the room, he sees familiar faces, though only acquainted with two of them. His bit floats in and he then closes the door, getting the hint from Tidus.

As the user introduces them, his friend comment receives a resounding, "YES," from his bit, floating beside Faux's shoulder. Oh, that is a yes. Yes that his bit better be on it's best behaviour... or it's having it's room privileges revoked.

Not knowing the majority of the participants of the operation makes this just a tad awkward. With a strained smile, he addressees the users, "Greetings. You might have seen me around," or not, "I'm the resident computer program; specializing in both infiltration and system-administration functionality." What else can he say? "I hope you don't mind the bit."

With a shuffle to the side, he finds a spot on a chair and seats himself. The bit leveling to his new height next to him.

His expression drops to a more serious look, "I've been told you are planning on investigating the Train; Trying to source this data loss within it's memory logs and the possible reasons why."

"I may not be a user with as extensive programming knowledge," he knows this hindrance well, "I however am a program, and I can offer that perspective; of what it's like 'on the inside'."

He opens his mouth to say more then quickly closes it, "I will try to help in whatever capacity I can," giving a nod to everyone.

Sorry there was a whole huge FFXIV patch that Needed Me

[wewillwewill]

Even Elidibus gives Senku a bit of a sideways look.

"That is close to what Senku said, Esteban." The Ascian glances at the half-elf and nods. "And I think some of that could be asked directly of the train." Specifically without submitting someone to trying to see through its senses.

"But it seems to be more than we were originally talking about. Seto and Senku. Could you make it clear what you're trying to do? This sounds like more than simply looking for the missing data... memories if you will."

This is a question asked with courtesy. He's not the type to judge things when they're unclear. And there has been a lot talked about; particularly for a meeting of multiple groups working their own methods for a similar goal. Elidibus wants some clarity of their focus.

At that point Tidus and Faux walk in.

"Ah, Faux. You're the one Tidus went to find?" Elidibus muses over the professed purpose of the program's coding. "Yes, I can see where your specialty would prove useful. With the train's support, of course."

Well the rest of what Elidibus might have to say will have to wait til he hears what Senku and Seto have to say.

[10billionpercent]

“Ah, I was unclear.” Senku acknowledged with a bit of a hum. “Some of those things we do actually know to some extent, but mostly I was trying to establish that even if the train has moved past storing its data like a computer would, as in it is a fully sentient being with no electrical component, there would still be evidence worth looking for. How the train works is not actually the goal here, nor does the train seem inclined to share that information.”

It also dawned on him that they might not follow this so he paused and revised his thoughts for a moment. “With programs, even those that evolve on their own, their memories would be stored like I just described.” He gestured at Elidibus. “A memory to a program would be written in a code like that, not unlike how our memories are written in the pathways in our brains. The train’s brain is likely a computer. I don’t think it could get around that.”

“Human memories and computer code work differently. While humans might forget something, given enough time or a lack of importance, like say what you had for breakfast last week – a computer would not. Not on its own. So the idea here would be either the train can’t access that information, and there might be information why that is or it’s been removed. Deleted.” Senku explained.

“On the programming side of things, we’d be looking for that. Is there some reason the information is inaccessible, or is it simply missing? If it is missing, did they leave any tracks behind? Who deleted it, when was it deleted and can it be recovered?” He offered the questions. “The scope of this and the train’s agreement is likely meant to be narrow. I don’t think the train wants us rooting around in everything. Along with the memories themselves, the train also doesn’t seem to be sure where its previous crew is. Are there logs to the effect of where the train was through its navigation systems? That, I think, should probably be the goal here, but if there’s more I’m not thinking of, we should discuss it.”

[blue_ice]

Seto has been fairly quiet the last little while. He's been wrestling Snapper back under control---the little apple really liked apple pie, who knew? He's managed to restrict her to one slice, and he's keeping a tight hold on her as he listens to the others and their contributions.

"Mm. Code that was written collaboratively can have tells about who wrote each piece. I doubt it'll be as simple as reading off a page, but if there's anything that information can tell us about our purpose, or things we can do to help better prepare...."

Deep breath. "That's all we want. To work through the limitations and set on the path to finding the missing. The crew the train misses so desperately...and those who were found and lost after too."

[ranoutofbuts]

Faux listens on, picking up on critical details from both Senku and Seto, between the small distraction brought by the creature in Seto's lap that looks suspiciously like a fruit. Seto's input at least is self contained. What he says is true. Certain users have telltales in their code. Not all of those perceived by users.

Both of these users have points worth elaborating on.

Faux has personally dealt with his own issues with memories. He knows what to look out for, the signs. Reminding himself that he chose to help, posture stiff and tone serious, "The data loss to the Train's memory store, could be down to a number of factors. Most noticeably; sustained damage, either through physical trauma, or deterioration of sectors. Corruption could have set in preventing those lines from being accessible." All reasonable given the state the Train seems to be in. "There is also the possibility that they were intentionally removed or altered. This could have been done by a third party we are currently unaware of, the Train's crew, or-" and this sounds a little too outlandish, "by the Train itself."

Following on the unbelievable, "It is true that machine memories work differently to a users. As Senku advised, a user's memory storage is nothing like a machines. Our details are sharp, precise, irrefutable. They being unavailable can only be through interference, or deliberate choice." Some programs do have access to their own records. "There is always the possibility that something occurred that necessitated the memories removal, or it's bypass." Someone had to say it. There isn't currently enough data to suggest this is the case, however there isn't any to disprove it just yet either.

"Regardless. The telltales should be there of whatever possibility it could be."

He withdraws from saying more.

[wewillwewill]

Elidibus listens to each in turn, giving due attention to every explanation. Each perspective. In a lull he'll speak again.

"I have some concerns you may be trying to make gaining this knowledge more complicated than it needs to be." He looks at Seto and nods to acknowledge the young man. "Though your idea has its merits as it concerns the specific creation of the laws which govern the Voidtrecker Express. Though this may be my perspective, which I would like to explain once I hear your thoughts on a few questions."

He looks at Senku. "You want to learn how a voidcraft's data is stored in comparison to the technology you're accustomed to, correct? And you wish to look for the logs that record the conditions the Voidtrecker Express experiences both in and out of the void?" Of course he's not looking down on this. There's a lot of good reasoning behind this form of inquiry after all.

"I'm given to understand you've been working on this for some time. But now we have access to the Void Ministry may I suggest, if you haven't considered it, you first establish what a base standard for voidcraft should be, so we can determine if there's any core differences- should there be any- in the nature of the Voidtrecker Express?"

There is a moment he studies Faux. "As a program, have you experienced any type of interface with the voidcraft yet, beyond the tether and use of ICPs? How do you perceive your current connection to the train?"

[10billionpercent]

Senku did not look like he thought Clu was outlandish at all, the fact the train itself could’ve deleted the files had crossed his mind. It was, in his opinion, the least likely outcome, but it was possible.

He held up a finger in Clu’s direction a moment because Elidibus’ question to him hinged on his answer and discussion to what Clu brought up. He shook his head. “It’s sounding complicated because I want you to understand what I’m talking about. It’s not a complicated request at all, and very narrow. I won’t deny I want to know how the train functions, I’ve never been secretive about that, and I have asked the Ministry for a manual on the subject.” Of course he did, since Lia Nine was willing to entertain the request at least.

“That’s not what my aim is here, however. We may get that knowledge, but that’s not the point. We need to know what happened to cause the data, or memories, to be inaccessible, and more importantly, we need to know if we can retrieve them.” Senku said, shaking his head a little bit. “When you delete a file, unless you know what you’re doing, that leaves a trace behind. That’s why- actually, I don’t think you’d get that reference. Never mind. Not important. But just deleting something doesn’t necessarily mean it’s gone forever. It takes a lot of extra work to make that happen. For the train to cooperate with us, I think we have to focus on the information surrounding the memories and the reason it can’t access them.”

He tilted his head in Clu’s direction. “You may not be wrong about that. The why in any case is just as important. If it’s damage or a virus...that’s a lot more complicated.” Senku said, frowning a little bit as he tapped his tablet, thinking. “As for our understanding of the information the train would provide to us, well I was thinking we should ask if it could be provided in a way we can understand it. If the train doesn’t know how, then we may as well make use of its capacity to learn and adapt and teach it something we can interpret.”

[blue_ice]

"Right, I'll refocus," Seto agrees, relaxing slightly as Snapper finally settles down for a nap. Caring for babies is so tiring...but she's being good now, he won't jinx that.

"Mm. How to explain this...memories can become inaccessible if the pathways to them are left untended, or damaged. That doesn't necessarily mean they're gone, just harder to retrieve. In humans, 'lost' memories can be called by accessing an alternate pathway...like an association with a scent or a sound. But we need to understand what we're looking at first. Alternate sensory communication seems to work, it's just interpreting that's the problem."

[crowneddragon]

"Why teach the train somethin' rather than us learnin' to speak their language?" There's a bit of a break as Esteban adds this a little curiously, tilting his head to the side as he tries to put it into perspectives.

"It's gotten-- what-- at least a hundred people that got tethered to it? An' we know there's some sharin' between the train an' the passengers, since it can see through their eyes, at the very least at the tetherin'." Yes, casually tossing that in there.

"Might be that the train has too many languages and can't settle for the one t' talk with us. If we narrow it down to its own mothertongue, it's less likely for it to struggle expressin' itself too, an' it might have an easier time to share what happened." But that does bring up a side note, something that Esteban had noticed but might not have translated over to Kaiba and Tidus.

"It seems to prefer very subtle impressions though. Sort of like--" and here, he falters for a bit, trying to find the words. "-- like hearin' a wave from the way the water shifts 'round you." Does that make sense?

[ranoutofbuts]

A little more confident he's on the right page with one of the users at least, Faux considers each other's words and propositions. All with varying degrees of opinion he is starting to recognize.

Elidibus' question has Faux consider his experience so far. He shakes his head, "In the simplest terms. None. Though I'm unsure if it has something to do with how I exist here. I seem to be taken as is from my system. Literal code, and operate as such. Since I'm not in a computer system, I don't have connection to it." Even if sometimes he feels as if he should. "It's not quite disconnection. More absence."

His hand runs along the table surface, feeling the smoothness of it, but nothing more than that underneath.

"Though," He then perks up, folding his arms, mustering up a sudden thought, "There was a moment when Idia's floating device scanned me, and I did sense a typical connection there briefly. Same with Naoya's baton, Annnd there is the front of the Train to the engine. Just sometimes I think I might pick up the faintest of something..."

Was any of that even useful? His uncertainty leaves him slumping back, "I know I've been adapting to a user existence. It's just frustrating since I have the ability to manipulate code where I'm from with a degree of precision. It would have been useful for this current task."

After his less than useful answer, he refocuses on the other users again as they continue the discussion.

What Seto says is true to a degree. Sometimes data isn't truly lost. The idea of the Train perhaps having alternate senses that they lack does give him thought. As does Esteban's, bringing up the idea that communication issues are being weighted down by simple logistic problems. This isn't exactly what he had been brought here to agree to, but again, the more for his processor to mull over and file away for later.

"The risk though is speaking the same language, does not guarantee you can understand one another." He's experienced it before.

[wewillwewill]

Taking the time to listen to each person's response in turn, Elidibus has settled in and closed his eyes. After all there was a lot of opinions here and since he asked for them, it's only fitting he takes care to absorb their content. Before a response directly to any one person is given, Elidibus brings up the matter he'd held until now. Though there may be some overlap noticed.

"Aether is the term my kind use to describe the energy that defines all creation. Without it there can't be life. In simple terms, events and experiences are recorded on the flow of aether. I can follow the flow and bear witness to past events of a location. Or memories of an individual."

There is a glance at those present to be sure they're still following. Though he'll continue after a moment.

"I've worked with the Voidtrecker Express to study the nature of our tethers. I've also sought to understand how it comprehends its surroundings." A nod is offered the half-elf. "Not unlike what you experienced through the technological devices. I've also attempted to trace events to a point before our allies were first summoned. There is a point where I can't go further. Something catastrophic occurred to overwrite the record with what I can only describe as an obsessive compulsion to 'find them'. If there's anything that remains of the original events, I've not found it."