from here [open!]

[blue_ice]

Who: The remaining Council (Seto, Nita, Curufin, Eva, and Glorfindel, with Nerdanel taking a quieter role) and everyone! Everything's fully open, feel free to comment anywhere.
Where: Upper Music Car
When: Imagination 21, before the train's questions and answers
What: The community's voices have been heard. It's time for a change.
Warnings: Discussion of grisly last mission, potential for heated discussion.

That morning, Seto makes a brief ICP announcement.

"Everyone...the remainder of the Council is meeting today to discuss your feedback and incorporate some changes this morning. Come by to keep holding us accountable. It shouldn't be as long as the main meeting, but I'll have the coffee, water, and whatever else we can rustle up."

Indeed, everything's set up similarly. Plenty of space. The stage is set for what will hopefully be a productive discussion.

Comments

[blitzcheer]

I'm with Senku.

[ He'll say that first, pause for a second before explaining, going on- ]

This came up during the last meeting for me too, and I think it's something we need to talk about, as a group. At least get enough agreement even with the Team Leads to go hey, we got people fighting us, and there's a chance we can disarm and capture them? Let's do it.

Not everyone's gonna agree, but if there's a way we want to do this, or the Team Leads do, and they let the other passengers know? It might make some difference. We can't do a lot about anyone we meet, [ they can't even take them into any... any space police! ] but we could've still taken those people's weapons. Those shields they were using? I know people who could use them.

[flatteries]

[ Man, this sure is Awkward, since Inigo is very rapidly starting to feel like he's the only one who's used to something else here. But that's exactly why he should speak up, right? Even if it makes his shy self super nervous. ]

.. I think it's really important to keep the whole "different cultures" thing in mind. Because for as much talk as there is here about respecting different cultures and thinking about it, there sure is a lot of other stuff being said here too. [ And that bugs him.

Not that Inigo knows who did that killing in the first place, he was too occupied with other stuff during the battle - but if it was someone who's from a similar world to his, it doesn't feel right to hear this talk. ]

I'm from a world where that kind of thing is normal. Because if you don't kill that guy, he'll just show up again two weeks later with a new weapon, terrorising more innocent people. [ He shakes his head. ] I'm not advocating that we should all kill all enemies we come across here or anything, I'm just saying.. not everyone's point of view is the same. The things we're used to aren't the same either. But that doesn't mean that people whose instinct is to kill their enemies are doing it for fun or anything like that. Or that they're carrying out 'vigilante justice'.

[ Feeling his hand shake, Inigo puts them down on his lap, forming them into fists. ]

I'm just saying be mindful of your language. Because I really don't like listening to people call for punishment of these people, or calling them enemies, just because our ways of living haven't always been the same. [ Because they might as well be saying it about him then. ]

[10billionpercent]

Ah, just to clarify, in case I was misunderstood. [ Because Inigo repeated what he said shaking his head. ]

I meant that a group of people judging the other people on the train for their actions when we don't have laws that we all bought into and punishing them for what they do is vigilante justice.

Not that the people doing those actions were being vigilantes. The notion of a vigilante is taking the law into their own hands. None of us have the authority to make those laws, is all I mean, unless everyone agreed on them to begin with.

[unfavorableinstigation]

[Nita gives Inigo a meaningful look.]

I get that too, though - I've been in war.

[The Pullulus War, to be exact.]

And if we want to be really exact, it's the train that's the vigilante here - unless we start getting a better understanding of how certain kinds of danger towards people qualify for missions, and if it's ever safe to, say, sit something out...

[But she shakes her head, not wanting to open that kettle of fish just now.]

But I know what it's like, where if you try to save everyone, to never have to take a life, bare minimum... if it's the wrong time and place, it'll get you killed without making a difference.

Or worse, get the people you're trying to protect killed.

[The whole thing reminds her - uncomfortably - of Najaran.]

[flatteries]

[ Inigo quietly listens, although he does mouth a 'thanks' in Senku's direction after he's done talking. He's not too sure if the other said it to reassure him, but it's kind of Senku to clarify anyway, he thinks.

And when Nita speaks, he nods, also grateful. Glad to not be looking like a total weirdo here. ]

Yes. Even aside from all our cultural differences, there's also our circumstances to consider, which make everything harder. It's not like we could lock people like that up in some dungeon either. [ Like on the last mission. So it severely limits their options to either killing or letting those people go to do what they want. It's tough. ]

But like Senku said, these are rules we'd all have to agree on in the first place, or they wouldn't work. I don't think anyone would like having things forced upon them, especially in a situation where none of us are here voluntarily. [ And when it's something you're not used to. ] That's why I think this is exactly the sort of thing that would be good to talk about with everyone present.

[ And not just the small group who bothered to come here. ]

[blitzcheer]

[ It's a tough discussion, at least to Tidus - though he's sure it's not really feeling straightforward to some of the others either. But he nods as he listens to Inigo. As uncomfortable as it is... it's also not foreign to him, either. ]

Right. I know... there's not always going to be a choice. And I don't know what the other missions have been like. The snow one, I don't know - with some doctor. Weren't Red Team told to kill them?

[ He exhales a shaky breath, rubbing his hands up his face. ]

Ugh, this train is so stupid...

[ Don't mind him, he's mumbling to himself. ]

[mtsilver_conquor]

[Eva's silent as she listens to the talk, and after an exhale, she speaks.]

Everyone has a point and Inigo-san has the right of it: this is something we all need to chime in on as I know I'm sure as hell not comfortable deciding on any kind of rules when we have so many cultures present.

[so_dark_a_road]

[ Curufin has been listening, with a mug of coffee in his hand, looking from one face to another. ]

It's true that everyone has a point. My take on this is similar to what some others have been saying. The problem with agreeing on a code of conduct and designating somebody to judge and punish those who break the code -- well, we aren't all from the same culture, and we're guaranteed to see things differently. Furthermore, I think that turning some of us into code cops and judges and jailers would inflict an injury on the collaborative culture we're trying to establish on this train.

I'm for dealing with things on a case-by-case basis, asking questions and figuring out exactly what happened and why everybody involved acted as they did. I don't believe in punishments. I do believe in second chances, and I do believe in giving significant support to the offender in order to make change possible. And of course, to anyone who was the victim.

That's for incidents on the train. On the missions, we have a different situation. Often people or entities are attacking the innocent on those mission worlds, or attacking us when we arrive. Others may feel differently, but I was trained for war. We have to survive, and we have to protect the innocent. We don't have the option of taking prisoners, except in rare circumstances, and we certainly cannot take them with us on the train. I think that those who have the option of killing or of granting mercy will have to make these decisions at the time.