We're trying so hard to get it all right

[shadowcourage]

Who: Shadow Link, Clef, selected individuals
Where: Training Gym Carriage
When: Merriment 21
What: Emotional Drama
Warnings: Very emotional arguments that involve family.

Shadow knew himself. He had to know himself. If he wanted to be more than a shadow, he had to be aware of his own shortcomings and compensate for them so he could stay on the track that was important to him.

He had known for years Clef didn't understand that. Its why he had kept him at a distance on purpose. He couldn't risk someone being close who didn't understand that.

But he supposed the danger of trying to be a person is person things happened, like emotions sneaking up on you. It was unfortunate. It just meant he had to be more aware of his own feelings. He had to keep the hurt away from his heart.

But Link and Clef have never been able to talk and....

He couldn't stand Link being hurt more.

So he had to try something.

Which is why when he finds Clef during his exploration, he decides its time to try.

"Come with me," he said flatly, in a tone that isn't likely to listen to argument.

Comments

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[sevenyearsasleep]

“I mean people with different cultures, different languages, different foods…that sort of thing.”

Link sighed. “If no one in your world breathes water or eats rocks, that might be why you’re having so much trouble understanding some things. But, it doesn't explain why you don't change your approach when people tell you you're wrong.”

He nodded at Shadow. “They’re not. Maybe that’s scary for him? Not having the answers in black and white?”

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[guru_clef]

It would take an extreme amount of will to breathe water or eat rocks. I am certain someone must have tried it at some point, but I cannot recall any cases specifically of sustained attempts," he said giving that thought. He almost missed the next part as Shadow would get - if he was still monitoring him - a long list of names and odd things they have attempted that got them written up in a tome for future generations.

But he halted the list and absorbed - or tried to - the rest of what was being said. "Because all research should be verified through multiple sources, ideally of different types. I don't trust just one book if it says that what I know is wrong, nor do I trust just one book if it teaches me something utterly new. While skills are different and you can get a grounding from a single source..."

How to explain this? He marshaled his thoughts, then realized that he had the perfect example.

"Soon after you arrived in Naut, Link, I learned about convection ovens. Nita and Jane both explained how they worked to me. I sampled a product made in one. I read multiple books about not just the principal of how they worked, but also ways to use them to achieve different effects. And then I practiced. A lot. I didn't go from Jane explaining to me how an oven works or Nita explaining how a cookie is baked to making a cookie." He held up his hand and using Bending, created a plate of chocolate chip and nut cookies, which floated over to the boys.

"Learning should always be a multi source exercise, and the more something matters, the more sources you need to find that all agree before you can have any reasonable assurance you know what the reality of the subject is. When I agreed to study Hyrule... I spoke to you, and to Zelda, I read what I could find to read on it... and we has planned to visit."

He closed his eyes. "I know not answers are simple yes or no... but those answers that are more complicated clearly require more study, more research."

He would fact check things told to him by his own princess. His method of learning is always research centric.

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[shadowcourage]

Shadow is definitely not connected to Clef anymore. The only way to hear thoughts is to try and control them and the person.

"Link isn't talking about people trying to be different. He's talking about cultures. People who are different without needing to try," Shadow said.

"And ya've decided thing with only one source considered before. Ya've decided big things with only two," Shadow added, crossing his arms. "He's definitely scared of different."

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[sevenyearsasleep]

“Yeah…I’m not talking about willpower. That’s not overly important in Hyrule. Like Shadow said, I’m talking about how people have to live. Gorons eat rocks, the Zora can breathe underwater or on land—-I have to wear enchanted clothing to survive in some places where they thrive naturally.”

Link shook his head. “I didn’t learn about them from books. I listened to them telling me about themselves. But, I’m a pretty good judge of character.”

He took a cookie and gestured with it. “There’s a difference. An oven can’t tell you about itself. And if it did, I’m kinda concerned you’d argue with it, telling it it was actually a forge because it got hot.”

He kept his tone light, teasing almost, but, it was probably obvious to Shadow at the very least, that Link was feeling a little strained.

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[guru_clef]

"I would sooner say a forge was a kind of oven than the other way around, actually," he clarified without thinking that maybe he shouldn't. He was more bothered by what Shadow had said. "What big things have I decided without sufficient research?" What had he missed? What more books should he be getting...?

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[shadowcourage]

"Missing the metaphor, Clef," Shadow said, facepalming with a sigh.

He was also less concerned with the cookies.

"The willpower thing, for one. Ya had two sources for it, ya just relied super heavily on one source as somehow being an indicator for all," Shadow said. "And ya used yer own view of me, not even considering the actual one legitimate source of me. Being, ya know, me."

He leans more against Link. "Its what Link is trying to say. Yer not used to people being fundamentally different on an existential level. Gorons eat rocks, Zora live in water, they never decided that, they were just born that."

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[sevenyearsasleep]

Link facepalmed in sync with Shadow. "Clef..."

He paused, listening quietly, taking mental notes on subjects he'd have to talk to them both about later. He wondered just what was going on with Clef and willpower and why in the Three Goddesses Names Clef wouldn't listen to Shadow when he told about himself.

He relaxed a bit at the physical contact. "Right. They also can't change who and what they are just by willing it."

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[guru_clef]

"It seems as though you are conflating two different things. Study and emotion. I didn't decide to feel about either of you based on study. Emotion is separate. The two can feed into each other of course, but even the wisest person can have emotions that seem stupid to others, even the biggest fool can make choices based on emotion that seem wise and well chosen. Emotion is not grounded in research. I am not saying that my choices emotionally are stupid, mind. Because I am not saying that at all, just that I did not have to research to know how I feel because we don't get to choose our emotions.

"As to your examples, with Willpower you are looking at the macrocosm, where as research generally happens on the microcosm scale. I have hundreds if not hundreds of thousands of sources on Willpower. You are counting two worlds. I am counting the endless books on the topic across those two worlds. And that is even aside from what knowledge other people brought with them to Naut from their own worlds."

He leaned back slightly, not in relaxation, but to try to ease some of the tension in his small frame. He failed.

"It seems to me, based on my studies of other worlds - both through books, and through talking to people who live there, as well as through storms - that a lot of unneeded and unwise conflict has arisen from people seeing other people as fundamentally different than themselves. It seems to me that it is far healthier to focus on the ways in which we are all the same."

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[shadowcourage]

Shadow just.

Puts his face in his hands. "Clef. Clef, ya have missed the point, yer not even on the same continent," he said.

"Nautilus ran on willpower. Nautilus ran on a different realm of existence from those planets. Those planets did not all run on willpower. Hyrule does not run on willpower. But ya act like everything does. It doesn't, and there are plenty of worlds that don't. That's why there's so many that don't even have a thing close to magic. If willpower made everything, all worlds would have a kind of magic that can be used, and they don't. Because if nothing else, there are the delusional and deranged who would believe despite everything whose willpower would be enough to make it exist, but it doesn't. So ya have to accept there are plenty of worlds where willpower don't decide the literal make up of how people exist," he said into his hands.

And then he lowers his hands. "And if ya ignore how people are different, then ya will never understand them. Ya think Link would have gone far with the Gorons, the Zora, the Gerudo if he wasn't willing to understand what their rules were?"

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[sevenyearsasleep]

Link rubbed his temples. “I’m not sure he’s in the same universe, Shadow…”

“Clef. You can see and accept differences without being a bigot or starting a war. I’ve been accepted as a member of the Gerudo and honored as a brother of the Gorons.”

He took a deep breath. “That doesn’t mean they didn’t see my differences. Or that I didn’t notice theirs. Just that I treated them with respect and listened….”

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[guru_clef]

"I do listen!" he protested. He just... didn't process information the way others apparently do.

"And I try to treat people with respect, I thought I have done a generally good job of that...." He was so unsure now.

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[shadowcourage]

"Yer not, not when they're different," Shadow said. "What a person is...that matters. That can matter a lot to some people. Ya going on about them being ways they're not, saying they're the same while ignoring what makes them different, its telling them all these things that matter to them don't."

"And it means when there's a problem ya don't understand, ya don't ever understand it. Because ya refuse to look at things from another point of view. At all," Shadow said. "Ya can get told what's wrong, but ya don't listen. Ya can get told what to do, but when ya don't understand why ya have to do that, then ya don't know the lesson."

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[sevenyearsasleep]

“If you dismiss what people tell you about themselves, you’re not being respectful.”

Link nodded as Shadow spoke. “You dig your heels in,” he agreed.

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[guru_clef]

"I look at things from as many points of view as I can! That is why I research as many sources as I can," he protested.

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[shadowcourage]

"I'm not a research project. There is no book about me," Shadow said flatly. "I'm the only official source that exists."

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[sevenyearsasleep]

"That's the point, Clef. People are people; every person is an individual, and Shadow is even more unique than that."

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[guru_clef]

"Well yes. That is why thinking about people as individuals is about emotion. But you keep saying I've gotten that wrong too!"

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[shadowcourage]

"Except it isn't all emotions. What a person is has an effect. Some more than others. You look at me like a Hylian. I'm not," he said.

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[guru_clef]

"No, I look at you as a person!" He burst out, unable to help himself. "It doesn't matter to me if you're from Hyrule, or Ceiphro, or Naut, or anyone else! I look at you like you're you!"

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[sevenyearsasleep]

"Except...Clef...I don't know that you do."

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[shadowcourage]

"He doesn't. Ya don't. Looking at me means acknowledging what I am and what that means," Shadow said coldly. "Ya know, when I was lying to Link and Zelda, it wasn't even I felt bad for lying. It was knowing they would never see me as long as I was that really hurt. It was always that, that tempted me to be honest."

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[guru_clef]

"What you are has far more to do with who you are than anything else! Your heart, your will! What you do and why."

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[sevenyearsasleep]

"Clef, he's telling you right now about the 'what' and the 'why'. He's told you before."

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[shadowcourage]

"My heart is darkness!" Shadow snapped angrily, the lights growing dim. "What I am at my core is darkness. It's hate and fear and bitterness! A mindless creature that harbors all the dark that doesn't survive in the light of a person's heart, what is buried, which a hero has a lot of, that follows their owner for their life. That is what a shadow is. That is what I am without my....freakish, anomalous ability to actually think for myself. But just 'cause I can decide to be different does not change. What. I. Am! It doesn't make any of that go away!"

Re: INTERUPTION NEXT DAY

[guru_clef]

"Except that is exactly what you have done, Shadow! What you are doing! You are so much more than fear and hate and bitterness! You said it yourself! You chose to be different! To be the wonderful person we have all had the pleasure and honor of getting to know! Thinking for yourself, choosing for yourself, using your Will to be who it is you want to be! That is so much more important than how you began!"