Family therapy

[motherofresistance]

Who: Leia, Clef, Link, and Shadow Link
Where: The Quiet car
When: Orchestra- Day 18
What: Leia tries to help bring Clef and his boys back together again
Warnings: Feelings and possibly some angst

It had taken a little while to properly arrange it, but the four of them were now seated in one of the Quiet Car booth compartments, the door closed behind them to block out distractions from the rest of the train. Leia and Clef sat on one side of the table, Link and Shadow on the other. Each of them had a cup of tea in front of them, and there was a plate of simple sugar cookies in the center of the table; negotiations nearly always went better with refreshments, in this case enough to put people more at ease without being overly distracting. And it felt a bit like peace negotiations, despite the fact that those involved were a family, rather than squabbling bureaucrats or Senators. At the very least, she expected some boundaries would need to be redrawn before they were done.

"Alright," Leia said. "Since I'm largely here as a mediator, a few ground rules before we get started, to avoid this turning into an argument. Everyone is going to respect everyone else's right to speak. No interrupting or talking over anyone; wait until the person who's currently talking is finished. We'll go counter-clockwise around the table and take turns speaking. Myself, then Clef, then Shadow, then Link, then back to me, and so on. If you don't have anything to say at the moment, you're welcome to indicate that the next person should go, but then you'll have to wait until your next turn to speak again. And finally- this hopefully goes without saying, but just in case-, we're here to talk. Which means no weapons, no magic, and no Bending get broken out."

"Now... with that out of the way..." She nodded to Clef, indicating that she was finished.

Comments

[sevenyearsasleep]

Link saw Clef was using the pen he’d carved for him in Nautilus, and he was touched. Some of the warmth gave way to confusion as he watched Clef write…and write.

When Clef did speak, Link listened, even if he was a bit confused here and there. He’d thought it had been a simple question. It seemed there were a lot of layers to Clef’s reasoning, so many that Link feared he couldn’t understand them all.

“See, I agreed because you were the first person ever to ask in any world I’d been to. You were kind to me. And you didn’t want impossible things from me.”

Link wasn’t as verbose. Even at his most talkative, he couldn’t compete with Clef.

“Until you did. And I tried really hard, but, unlike helping people…you never were happy with the results. You just kept moving the goal post on me, and eventually I decided to stop. But, that’s not really important.”

He chewed his lip, twirling a pen between the fingers of his left hand.

“My hobbies—-I won’t show anyone from your world my favorite pastimes.”

Link twirled the pen in the opposite direction.

“I have your back. You just don’t always see it.”

[motherofresistance]

Leia still wasn't sure of the significance of the pen, other than it being Clef's favorite, but it looked hand made. A gift maybe? It seemed to have some significance to Link too, which lent some weight to that theory.

"There may be books to help expand your emotional vocabulary," Leia said, answering Clef's question first, "but Shadow's still mostly right. Any books like that would only be a starting point; they could give you words, but not teach you how to use or apply them to your life, just like reading a dictionary doesn't teach you how to write or speak well. They could provide a foundation, perhaps, but you'd still need to do most of the building yourself."

"And it might be helpful to know what specific things Clef asked of you that you found unreasonable," she said to Link. "There's generally nothing wrong with consistently encouraging someone to improve, but that can go too far sometimes if the other person's own needs and desires aren't taken into account enough."

[guru_clef]

Clef didn't hear what Leia said. It was hard to hear anything over the roaring in his ears. That... and the sound of his own heart shattering.

See, I agreed because you were the first person ever to ask in any world I’d been to.

It didn't have to be him. Link... Link didn't love him. Had never loved him. This was... was just like Link doing any task asked of him. He hadn't become Clef's son because he wanted to.

But because he never said no to anyone.

And for as well as Clef knew him... thought he knew him... how did he miss that? How did he ever let himself think... think that it could have been more?

And you didn’t want impossible things from me. Until you did.

Link had agreed, because he thought he was doing a kindness for Clef... and now... now he regretted it.

Clef couldn't focus on the room, or anything said after that. Just the sound of his heart shattering over and over again.

He was unaware that he'd gone still and pale, unaware of the pain in his eyes and the tears falling free of them...

[shadowcourage]

Shadow looked at Link and will reach for his free hand, squeezing it gently. Just to reassure him since he was being vulnerable and he can feel the pain in now showing the past times.

It wasn't like they were ALL inherently dangerous, jeeze.

Except then Clef had grown quiet again and he's doing his best to listen to these rules.

And...crying?!

He doesn't even know why and he looks at Leia for some help here because even if he can guess at negative emotions, he can't figure out what Link said to get THIS reaction.

[sevenyearsasleep]

Link needed that reassurance from Shadow because now he was just as flummoxed.

“What’s wrong? Why did you stop talking? I told you how special you are. That out of all the adults I came across you were the only one interested in me for my own sake……”

He looked from Clef to Leia and Shadow.

“I promised not to show your friend the fun stuff….I told you I had your back, just you didn’t always see it…….what’s wrong??”

Link sincerely couldn’t fathom what he might have said to get such a reaction.

[motherofresistance]

Leia had thought it was going reasonably well until she felt the stab of heartbreak from Clef. But she was just as baffled as Link at why his words had produced such a reaction; it had sounded perfectly reasonable to her. But then, she wasn't coming into this primed to hear things any particular way. Clef and Link had both come into it inclined to think that the other thought the worst of them. Link may have been starting to shift slightly away from that, thanks to the pen, but Clef... Clef apparently hadn't.

She had been about to attempt to translate when Link did the job for her, for which she was more than willing to let speaking outside his turn slide. Rather than try to explain Clef's problem to Link right away though, instead, she opted to make sure Clef was still with them. "Clef?", she said simply, resting a hand on his shoulder. Hoping the touch would bring him out of his shock if Link's words couldn't do the job alone.

[guru_clef]

"It... it didn't have to be me? Anyone who asked... if they asked first... you would have said yes?" he asked in a whisper. His eyes closed and the tears fell. "Did you only say yes because... because you thought I needed this and to help me? Did you... did you never actually want... for yourself.." his voice cracked. "You only said yes... to help me?" he whispered.

[shadowcourage]

...the leaps Clef would make sometimes. Shadow sees how the leap was made, but it was selling Link awful short. At least at this point.

Link had wanted his father to take some responsibility. To not need to be the hero. That should have been his first clue it wasn't about doing what people asked of him.

He is. Very much going to keep quiet, put his face in his hand, and squeeze Link's hand. This isn't something he's gonna weigh in on yet.

[sevenyearsasleep]

Link stared blankly at Clef for a moment. Did he expect Link to have 100s of years of memories to draw from? He honestly couldn’t say Clef reminded him of anyone in Hyrule…

“Not the lady who killed a guy on the Network, that’s for sure.”

And then the other part hit Link like a slap to the face. He felt that old frustration bubble up again, lessened a bit by Shadow.

“How would taking in a feral eleven year old help anyone? And do you honestly believe I have that big of an ego to think I’d be doing you a favor? For Din’s sake, I’ve told you before I needed you to be the strong one…to not need me to fix everything.”

[motherofresistance]

Leia fought the urge to sigh at Clef's explanation. At least he was talking again, but really? That was what he thought? Still, she let the boys react first before she took her turn. Once again, Link's reaction helped. Even if his words didn't exactly translate properly to a centuries old mage, they still helped her decide how to word her reply.

"What I believe Link is saying," she said to Clef, "is that you're special and important to him precisely because it was you who stepped up to adopt him. It was you to first took the time to see and care about him as a child, and a person, rather than just 'the chosen one'. You who loved him enough to think about what he as a person wanted and needed, rather than just expecting him to conform to the role of 'hero' or 'warrior' and solve everyone's problems, no matter how dangerous or ridiculous they may be." Leia didn't know the particulars of what Link had been asked to do in his world, but she knew enough to make some educated guesses. And she was willing to bet that most- if not all- of it would have been considered ridiculous or unthinkable to ask of a child had he not been arbitrarily slapped with the title of 'Chosen One'.

"As an adopted child myself, I can tell you this with certainty: the fact that my parents were under no obligation to be my parents made me love them that much more once I was old enough to truly understand what that meant. I wasn't just dropped into their lives by happenstance. They wanted me. They chose me, out of love. Could someone else also have chosen to adopt me? Of course. But the point is that no one else did. They stepped up, took me in, raised me, and loved me. Just like you did and are trying to do for Link. And that makes all the difference in the galaxy."

She shifted her attention to include Link. "You can correct me if I'm wrong, Link, but by being 'strong' I assume you don't mean being perfect, or stoic, or even powerful. Rather, you simply want Clef to be someone you can turn to with your problems sometimes, rather than you being the one people turn to with theirs, even if he doesn't always have all the answers. A responsible adult who loves and cares for you and doesn't expect you to be the responsible one. Am I right?"

[guru_clef]

"I never wanted him to solve my problems," he said softly. "I just wanted him to be with me, and to be there for him. I wanted to be able to help him, watch him learn and grow. I wanted to be part of his life and him to be part of mine.." he whispered, looking down at the pen. He turned it around in his hands. "I just always figured he said yes... because he wanted to be part of my life too."

He took a deep breath. Then looked up at Link. "Don't you realize how amazing having you as a son has been? There is no ego needed to realize that. That's nothing to do with you being strong or being a hero. It's about the joy you bring into the lives of the people who get the chance to get to know you." He looked down again, but was still talking to Link. "Just seeing you coming to talk to me, makes me smile. Working with you, practicing with you. Spending time with you. Even when we argue sometimes. So yes, saying yes to me... was helping me."

Another deep breath. "And of course you can always talk to me about your problems... but..." He closed his eyes again. "I want to be able to fix them... and I don't know how. I'm not... I'm not as good...as what you need me to be... What I should be..."

[shadowcourage]

"Speaking as someone's whole thing is 'get acknowledged,' yer severely underestimating the power of being the first to step up and do something no one else did, Clef," Shadow said dryly to that first part. Because he was certainly still downplaying how much Link valued Clef.

"The whole reason I changed was because Zelda acknowledged me," Shadow said, because Clef needed to understand. "It wasn't that Zelda saw me. It was that someone knew me and still saw. It was barely a moment, maybe twenty seconds, but suddenly everything up to that moment that had decided my actions, the anger, the pain, the fear, none of it mattered as much as protecting someone who saw. I'm only the person I am now 'cause of that moment."

[sevenyearsasleep]

Link was so grateful that Shadow and Leia were both there. They both seemed to understand where he was coming from. That alone lessened his frustration with trying to convey his own feelings.

"Like Leia said, I don't need perfect. I don't even need you to fix my problems. They're kinda huge, and I don't expect anyone can actually fix them. Just having you listen is good enough. But, maybe...maybe not fall apart unless someone is actually dead? That...that would be nice too."

He took a breath and nodded again at what Shadow had said. "Don't you understand how much that meant to me? That you were the first and only one to see a kid with a sword and offer him a home? Out of three different worlds I'd been in? That told me you were someone special and worth the risk of letting in."

Link fidgeted with the paper and pen in his hands, glancing down at them as he continued. "I've lost a lot of people, Clef. I can't even remember my birth parents. The Great Deku Tree was my last dad and he died horribly. Navi left me and I'm starting to think I'll never see her again. People I love end up either dying gruesomely or leaving me or they send me away. Accepting your offer of adoption was a huge thing for me. It still is."

He set the paper and pen down and put his hands in his lap, still staring at the items. "It hurts that you think I'm doing this for some weird heroic reason. That you think I'm being some kind of martyr right now. I'm doing this because I care about you and I wanna make things better between us. And...yes, it kind of does take an ego on my end to see that you think I'm a good son."

[motherofresistance]

Now they seemed to be making a bit of progress. That was good, but there was still a long way to go. At least everyone was actually talking though.

"That's one of the most difficult parts of being a parent," Leia said. "Wanting to always protect your children, to be able to solve all of their problems, to keep them from being hurt, and realizing that you often can't. Sometimes because it's beyond your power. Sometimes because it's simply something that your child has to discover or handle on their own, especially as they get older. Either way, watching them struggle is never easy."

"And another thing that's not easy is seeing beyond the persona that people show the world. The Force gives me something of an unfair advantage in that area, but even that's just a starting point. It takes time and effort to be able to see and know someone like that. And as Shadow said, when someone needs that in their life- as both he and Link did- it can be life changing when someone gives it to them."

She smiled slightly at Link's last admission. "Also? I think you may find that it takes just as much ego for Clef to believe that you view him as a good father, which is partly why we're all here. In that regard, you're both very much alike at the moment."

[guru_clef]

There was so much here to take in and absorb. Which should have been easy. Taking in vast amounts of information and understanding it, processing it, making connections... that was what he did. But somehow as soon as it became about emotions... he found his capacity diminished. Like he was suddenly working with a lower IQ. It was... unsettling. Sometimes terrifying.

So he found himself reacting and processing more slowly than he was used to. He stared at the boys in something of a state of shock. "But.... how could anyone see the two of you, talk to you at all, and not want to make you part of their life forever...?" How did anyone look at his boys and not just know how wonderful they are? How could he have been the first to ask Link in all those worlds? Also, this was serving to make him less willing to actually like Hyrule once they finally got there. A whole world that couldn't see how amazing his boys were, save a few people? Also he kind of figured that Saria's father... had he been wrong? Not he was unsure of everything he knew, now.

He missed Zelda. Desperately. She was here, but she also... wasn't. While he still loved this Zelda because her essential self was clearly the same... they didn't have the relationship where he could just sit and talk with her, ask her to clarify weird Hyrule things.

He shook his head a bit, to clear it. This wasn't about his own selfish longing for a good friend who was both here and gone, but about needing to be here for his boys. About getting this all figured and sorted.

"You are a wonderful son," he said softly. "Frustrating at times, undeniably, but wonderful all the same. Having you accept me as your adopted father is something I've never felt worthy of once I came to understand it, Link," he said softly. And the whole rift with Shadow had also driven home how amazing it was that Link had agreed. "And let's be honest with ourselves, Link. We both know that if someone asked you to cut off your own arm, because they needed it... you'd probably do it. Is it really so hard to see how I could imagine you seeing how much I wanted to have you in my life and agreeing for my sake without thinking about yourself?"

He swallowed hard. "I want you to be able to... to feel free to... to say no to people sometimes, but at the same time I am a hypocrite enough to feel terrified that you will one day say no to me still being your father." he swallowed, looking down at the pen, gripping it.

There was more he should say, he knew. But the lump in his throat was too large, he couldn't get words out past it. part of him wanted to say that he was actually partially pleased whenever Link said no to homework or studying because it was expressing his own wants over the wants of others. And in general, he wanted to encourage that, to get Link to put himself first sometimes. Not all the time, but far more often than he did. To see his own value. But he was afraid that if he said that the take away would be, for Link, that he should never study again.

[shadowcourage]

"Probably the many war crimes," Shadow said flatly. He's just saying, the people of Hyrule had every right to treat him like a monster. It was part of why he could forgive Vio for stabbing him in the back now. He can understand that even if Vio saw him, or at least had come to want to see him, he couldn't forsake Hyrule for that desire. No matter what potential he could have seen in Shadow, he simply didn't have the time to do anything else. "Zelda gave me a kindness I really did not deserve at the time."

"Though I agree with Sapling. Like, I can get the ones who could see he has so many issues and realize they're not cut out to deal with that, or how...rumbustious? He is. But why there weren't more offers, that's more like people being stupid or unaware," he said with a shrug. Because that was also true. Link did have a lot of baggage and people can't always deal with baggage, and he's a spirited he knows that can be hard to handle without it.

But there were always kind souls and why someone didn't see the good of him with that, it seemed foolish to miss.

[sevenyearsasleep]

He nodded a bit. Leia had a point about Clef and himself being alike in that manner.

"I had more offers of marriage than I did adoption." Which was also true, and in retrospect, a little terrifying. Granted Talon had been clearly messing with him. (Hadn't he?) And Ruto was a cultural misunderstanding. Well...on Link's end. Ruto knew darned well what she was doing. "Shadow is probably right about people just being unaware. I could take care of myself, but, a kid of ten or eleven shouldn't be...."

"But, honestly, Clef, the only reason that the Great Deku Tree took me in was because he knew I was fated to be the Hero. If I hadn't, I likely would have died with my mother. That isn't cruelty, although, I know it must sound awful. But, that is how the magic of that forest works. The point is--you should consider yourself special."

Link's expression softened a little listening to Clef continue, but there was a spark of mischief. "Only my right arm, I need my left one to use a sword."

"I do tell people no. Usually it's just you and the ideas you have about me being some kinda scholar. You're actually one of the few people I can tell no. I know that nothing horrible is gonna happen if I do, and that you're not gonna ditch me when I do."

Link nodded his head towards Shadow. "I want you to actually listen to Shadow, though. I don't think you actually process a lot of what he tells you about himself, and that's not ok."

[motherofresistance]

Not for the first time, Leia had the desire to give those in charge of a world's metaphysics a piece of her mind. She wasn't certain what specific cosmic force or entity had been responsible for setting in motion the constant cycle of reincarnation that Link and Shadow were subject to, but she was fairly certain that they were an idiot. There had to be a better way of handling the situation than repeatedly forcing the same few people into lives of violence and suffering. But if there was a good place for discussing such a thing, this wasn't it, so she kept her thoughts on that matter to herself.

In the present, Clef's unabashed love for his boys was wonderful... but it was also part of the problem, in particular with Shadow. Loving him to the point of being blind to his faults was just as damaging, in its own way, as seeing only those faults would be. "It's good that you love Link and Shadow as much as you do," she said to Clef, "but for all your sakes, you can't be blinded by it."

"Love and compassion are wonderful and important things, but don't fix everything. Nor are they all that's needed for a stable relationship. Trust is just as necessary. As is understanding. And being able and willing to communicate with each other and actually hear what's being said is crucial in any relationship, especially in a family. Which is also part of the reason we're all here."

"Link is right regarding you and Shadow. It's one thing to think that someone is a far better person than they give themselves credit for, but constantly viewing them through rose-tinted glasses isn't helpful to either of you. You need to love someone with your eyes open, to get to know and understand all of them- or at least as much of themselves as they're willing to share- not just an idealized version of them."

"Clef's also right about you too though Link. All joking and mildly disturbing metaphors aside, saying no- drawing reasonable boundaries for yourself- isn't something you've really been allowed to do in many situations, and that's not your fault. But as you grow, it is a skill you're going to need to learn. Being willing to help people who need it is a good thing, but there needs to be balance."

[guru_clef]

He took a deep breath, making notes as he listened, as he thought. He paused to try and gather his notes into some semblance of order.

Which would be easier if he could use magic to rearrange the sentences so like thoughts were together. He still didn't understand why magic was banned in this situation, really. It was nearly on a level with banning breathing. To his mind, both were needed for a proper intellectual exchange of ideas. Magic was such a useful tool for...

He saw the word he had been writing. teaching and it stopped him. He took a deep breath. He'd been focusing more on Link so far in this meeting, but he needed to also address this underlying issue with Shadow.

He found himself tracing the word over and over again as he gathered his thoughts. So many faces from his past flitted through his mind. And some of them... some of them hurt to think of. He took another deep breath and looked up, looking right into Shadow's eyes if the boy would meet his gaze.

"Listening and agreeing are not the same thing." And though his next words were aimed more at Leia, he didn't look away from Shadow. "And it isn't rose tinted glasses or an idealized version of anything."

He took another breath, and held himself very still, letting all the intensity of what he was saying show in his eyes. Because if he let any other part of his body give it physicality he might lose control of himself enough to break something. and that break might not be physical, might not be something he could mend. Or it could be the table if he let his magic slip. He was trying, but he already wasn't good with emotion and this...

For a moment Alcion's face overlayed Shadow's. But it was just a moment that his eyes went distant before they focused again. He fought to keep his voice even. "There are people that I have trusted with everything, that I have loved, that I have trained. Not the way I love the two of you, I see that now, and have for a while. But at the time?" He fought to shove the pain back. He broke off that sentence and started again, verbally regrouping. "When Lantis left. When Zagato kidnapped the princess, when people joined him and helped him destroy our world and betray our people... I realized then that I clearly had never known them as well as I thought I did." A hard swallow. Another deep breath. These wounds went deep. Some of these people he had trusted for centuries. He fought the tremor that ran through him, moved his hands under the table after setting down the pen.

"I loved and trusted them. They betrayed the princess, they betrayed their world, they betrayed us all. I cannot let myself be swayed by our shared past. Not when they are actively trying to kill people I protect and are helping Zagato hurt the princess and destroy our world."

Another deep breath.

"But that doesn't go a single way. I cannot judge them for having turned against everything they were and react to that without judging you in the moment you've told me where you turned away from everything you were. You see the bad things you did in your past. I see the choices you have made to make that the past. I see the choices you make now. I see the people you spend your time with, I see who you are now. I am not ignoring what you did once, but I am seeing that that is no longer who you are. Just as they are no longer who they were. There are certain thresholds that once crossed are not crossed back. There are points of no return in our lives, for good or for ill. You chose. That is what I see," he said firmly.

Another deep breath. This was also hard to say, but in a different way; for different reasons.

"When we were in Naut, and Link and I were... the way we were at the gate," and he still hated himself for how he had been then. Didn't hate Link for his part, just himself. Well, himself, Endos, and Papillon. "No one would have blamed you if you had attacked us to stop us, least of all us once we were ourselves again. Given the impermanence of death there, no one would have blamed you if you had killed us to stop us." His shoulders squared. "No one but you," he said firmly and clearly. "You stopped us in a way that hurt no one. That kept not only everyone you cared about safe, but everyone else there that could have been collateral damage. That is the choice you made."

This still hurt to say, but was also easier to say. The conviction was clear in his voice. "When you came after me in the library, I could see how deeply you cared. How hard you were trying. I saw you. I still see you. I may see you differently than you see yourself, but that does not mean for one second that I do not see you. I took your words to heart. Not only with how I treated Link, but others I loved. Including you. I waited, I will continue to wait, in hope that one day you will see me as family. But I stopped bringing it up except in cases like this where it came up because we are trying to be honest with each other on a deeper and more visceral level than typical interactions require. I do not want it because I see some fictional version of you, Shadow, but because I see you, and I have for a long time now, by your scale."

There were other issues that needed to be addressed that had come up. Some that hadn't, probably more than he realized. But this... this was important too. And it needed the weight of focus.

Because he loved both of his boys, and the both meant more to him than anyone he'd ever known before arriving in Naut.

[shadowcourage]

Shadow snorted at Link's joke. "Only ya would give up an arm with the thought of being useful with the other," he said with an amused smirk. "Do agree though, ya can stand to say no a little more. Pretty sure after two world savings, yer allowed to pass the buck to someone else."

Clef caught Shadow's eye and he looked to meet his gaze. But as he spoke, the amused look faded, face slowly becoming more and more blank as he spoke. His grip on Link's hand shifted, moving to hook his arm around his, leaning against his side, the subtle twitching of his form leaning towards Link, a few wisps curling around him.

An anchor.

"Except ya don't," he said, voice dull. "And the example ya gave is the exact proof of what ya see. Because what yer seeing is a choice that Link would have grappled with. Ya see the choice that Vio made. Ya know, when I discovered his betrayal, I was so...surprised. I had been able to predict them over and over and I understood Vio figured out how to turn that trick against me, but he did the one thing I couldn't think of."

"He could still kill me after we became friends. Because it was for the greater good. He could smile and pretend and care and have the selfish desire to want me in his life. And still choose to be the hero. I had watched them struggle against other knights, the innocent, go so far because they had to save Zelda...I never thought for a moment he could make the connection and go through with it. I didn't take account for the fact that unlike the rest of them, I was either removed or they lost, and he couldn't make any other choice," Shadow said, voice distant, detached. "That isn't something I can do."

"Killing y'all was never an option at the gate. Maybe fight, but I dismissed that because I couldn't hold back and win and killing wasn't an option. Doing nothing was an option. What I did was an option." He threw up his free hand. "Joining Endos was an option, I thought about it because hey, he could make them not care about Hyrule and then they wouldn't care about my lies. But I don't choose to do the greater good for the greater good. I did what I did because I didn't want Link and Zelda or even ya to hurt and that was the best way to minimize damage."

He breathes deep and lets it out. His voice is still dull and detached. The shadows of his body, however, are curling more and more around Link, his normally purple hair now black, his eyes a paler blue. Because controlling his form is difficult when he's having a lot of emotions and something in his forced composure had to give, and the voice is more important. "Because I'm selfish. If its between the world and what I want, I will choose what I want. And I want these people to want me in their life, I want their lives to be easier than they are. I want to fulfill the words Zelda spoke to me, I want them to be proud of me, I want them to be happy, I want them to see me, I want them to know even if my motives are selfish, my care is genuine. And they are enough to ignore my worst impulses. They are enough to be a better person then I would be on my own. Because fundamentally, I'm not that different. I'm selfish, I'm prone to anger, loneliness, obsession, I have all these dark thoughts. And I will still choose what I want over the world. I just understand the choices I made did nothing except get all the pain in me outside, but it didn't make it better. I didn't change everything that I was. It was only a few things, but mostly it was willing to face reality for the first time, and being offered a hand to do something new."

[sevenyearsasleep]

Link was about to express his appreciation that Shadow understood his sense of humor, when Clef started talking...and talking...and he felt Shadow's reaction beside him. He shifted slightly to be a better physical anchor, to show his support wordlessly.

"Clef." Link took inhaled and shook his head. "First off, people would have been pretty peeved if he'd killed us, top of that list being Zelda herself. Can't lie, I'd have been pretty miffed too." A fleeting smile for Shadow, before continuing.

"Secondly, you keep saying the same things over and over to Shadow. And the result is the same each time. You're an intelligent man, Clef, find a different approach for a new result. I know you mean well, but, you're really, really, bad at listening to anything you don't want to hear. And I'm tired of seeing him get hurt, because you think your view of him is the only right one. I want so badly for you to be proud of him for who he is, not who you think you see."

[motherofresistance]

Magic was indeed a useful tool for many things. But like Bending, becoming too reliant on it was a problem. One had to be able to stand and act on their own, without using such things as a crutch.

Her and now, she listened carefully to what everyone had to say, considering her own reply as she did so. "Honestly, Clef, both of them are right," she said. "When it comes to Shadow, you're seeing what you want to see, rather than what's really there. His choices- good and bad- are his own. You can't judge him by the same metric as you would Link, or any of the others you mentioned."

"Despite his name and origin, Shadow is no one's double. He's his own individual with his own motivations and desires. You can't just assign motivations to his actions that you feel are more fitting. Doing so- however well meant it is- is highly disrespectful to him. It belittles him, his feelings, and any effort he makes to better himself, because by doing so you're effectively saying that his own desires and motivations are irrelevant or not good enough. That to be considered a good person in your eyes, his motivations and desires must fit with your expectations."

"I know that's not at all what you intend to imply," she added, heading off the protest she could see coming, "and so do they. But the fact that the hurt was unintentional doesn't mean it's not real. Shadow's path to becoming a better person is hardly a traditional one. But it's his, and it's as valid as any other. And until you can see and accept that, I'm afraid we're going to be at a bit of an impasse."

[guru_clef]

Clef fought his own frustration, struggling to keep control of his temper which tended to flare as often from frustration as from anger. It had never once been the right answer, and yet he couldn't ever get it to go away completely. Moments like this it kept trying to take over again.

The urge to rant and scream, to call people names, to jump up and down... he didn't know why it was there, why it would vanish for decades just to reappear stronger than ever. He was seven hundred and forty something, for Ceiphro's sake, why did he still have that impulse to act like a child? And why did it seem to happen most often in moments when being an adult and communicating clearly was so very important?

He forced the twitch in his limbs and the accent that always came out when he lost his temper down. It took effort. His frustration was so strong it was like a living thing trying to burst out of him.

He managed not to scream, or to lose control of his pronunciation, but some of the frustration leaked out in his tone, he couldn't help it.

"Of course his motivations and desires are good enough, but how are you all missing the heart of what he's saying?" he asked, frustrated. He felt trapped by the small space between chair and table, by the small carriage, to be honest the train felt small and confining. He wanted to pace, where pacing meant a path that spanned miles of sky. Or possibly acres of grasslands.

"Look at what he said himself he wanted!" he said, aiming his words at Leia, because that...

That would hurt less. Not himself. But Shadow. He hoped. He didn't think him snapping at Leia would change her opinion of him or hurt her. But he'd already seen the effects of his fraying control on his boys. This was the best he could do, talk to Leia, but with words meant for them all to hear. Fight to keep his accent from slipping to keep himself from seeming more like Presea on a tare than the educated mage he is meant to be.

"Look at the people he chose to let himself love! To want approval from! Link. Zelda. They are two of the best people I know in so very many ways! I'm not saying what he wants is what he wants because he shares my morals, but because what he wants is fundamentally good! Perhaps not in a direct point A to point B way but even roundabout, he is choosing good! He is choosing to emulate Link and Zelda for their approval perhaps, but why would he want their approval if they didn't have his approval?!"

He was shaking with the effort it took to stay in his seat.

"Saying that he would choose them over the world is" a self deluding statement but he managed to stop himself from giving those words voice, and said instead "a statement with a lot of emotional meaning perhaps," he managed. "But in practice? In practice he knows Link and Zelda well enough by now to know that they would always choose the world over themselves. They have done so. Countless times. I've known them less long than he is, and even I can see that. I suspect everyone on the train can tell that by now already. And Shadow was smart enough to see we were controlled at the Gate! He knows this is a thing, and specifically has empirical evidence that Link and I, at the least, are able to be controlled in that way. If Link or Zelda ever said they wanted to see the world burn - any world - I think Shadow's first reasoning would be that something was wrong with them. Because he knows them better than that!"

He would have run a hand over his face, but he was now holding the table so hard he would have left hand prints if his body at all reflected his power or age in a way other than Ceiphro's.

Finally he turned to Shadow, unable to keep himself from doing this, frustration bringing him to near tears that his wonderful boy couldn't see for himself how wonderful he was. "You said it yourself. You could have chosen to join Endos. That it was tempting. Not because you wanted to destroy things, but because it might have brought you short term closer to Link and Zelda." And himself, maybe? Maybe. He couldn't focus on that now o his point would get muddied. More lost than it already was.

"You didn't want us to get hurt. So you did what could have gotten you hurt."

No, wrong path. Try again. Deep breath, Clef.

He took a deep breath then said, trying so hard to be calm, but losing it, "Why is it all or nothing with you and Link when it comes to selfishness?!" And... he lost control of his accent and his temper flared, making his motions jerky and twitchy as he fought against them. "Ya can have selfish thoughts and wants and be tempted by them without bein selfish! Ceiphro, wanting things you want IS NOT SELFISH OR EVIL! Ya can want and even take steps to what ya want without it bein a mark against ya if ya don't hurt anyone doing it! Or if you accidently do an ya try an make amends..."

Blast it all. He struggled to try and control himself, a tear escaping. "Just like Link needs to learn to say no more often, to..." fighting so hard for control "to accept that he has a right to actually put himself first sometimes, you have ta..." dang it "to... you have to accept that wanting things, even wanting things you think is wrong doesn't make you evil, Shadow. I want you all to come and move to Ceiphro with me, for us to all stay there forever. I want it desperately. I honestly think you all would love it there, and while I know that if it was a visit, you could all be happy there for a time, I also know that Zelda and Link at the least would never abandon Hyrule, and that while I don't know if you would or not, I know you'd never abandon them! You;d all be so fixated on doing what is right for Hyrule that if some power or entity ever tried to force you all to stay on Ceiphro, the three of you would fight against it with all you had. AND I'D BE THERE HELPING YOU. Because while what I want more than anything is for us to all be a family living happily there, I know that is a selfish want as long as it isn't what you guys want. So I'm not going to force it. I might bring it up from time to time, but I would never truly honestly push it, I would never try to twist your arms metaphorically or otherwise, because I know it is a selfish wish. But I still allow myself that dream, that day dream. I want it, but more... I want you three to be happy and healthy. I want you three as safe as is reasonably possible. Even if that means I'm stuck in Hyrule for the rest of your lives. And you better beleive I'm going to do everything in my reasonable power to find a way to make those lives as long as possible!"

He winced at how loud he'd gotten at the end there, chest heaving, heart pounding since the words at the end had come out in such a rush that he had been forced to chose between breathing properly and keeping his accent in check. Breathing had lost out. He could breathe after. But words once said couldn't be unsaid.

Of course now terror was washing through him and he was worried that he'd said the wrong things anyway.

[shadowcourage]

Leia is a surprise. Shadow respected her ability, of course, that's why he asked for her help. But to hear her talk of him, it felt...she did actually get it. At least as much as to be expected from what information she knew. It was a surprise, but...not an unpleasant one. It's almost enough to help him simmer down, but...

Shadow was listening, he was, and honestly this is why he had been pushing the Link and Clef issues first and foremost. Because that? That was fixable, he was sure of it. It was just working out an understanding, sorting through feelings for two people who were bad at their own feelings.

But him and Clef? He wasn't sure. He couldn't be sure because the more he listened, the more those resentful, bitter feelings squirmed. He didn't care about the raised voice or the frustration, he can take dramatic emotions thrown his way...

In the end, it was about the context of the words. And the one, single, important fact Clef just Would Not Accept.

"I. Am. A. Shadow." He snarled, eyes going white, face dark, and a hand grabbed his notepad just to shred through a large chunk of the papers. "Ya keep looking at me like I'm a human, a Hylian, a species that is normally a person. I am an anomaly. Half the reason I like nerd stuff and books is 'cause its my intelligence that lets me try to be more then base instincts. To be more then the thing that just wants to keep Link forever or attack or destroy anything that upsets me!"

His chest is heaving, but there is no actual air moving in and out of his mouth as some sense of color returns, but its muted, washed out. "Ya know why I 'let myself love them?' Because I am incapable of being indifferent. I can love 'em, I can hate 'em, but I'm always going to feel a desire for connection for good or ill. I can't ignore they exist because is it a fundamental part of me I can't ignore Link and its apparently a thing where he can't ignore Zelda, and that transfers because I was not meant to be a person. And this isn't me quesitoning my personhood, I know I'm a person, I just also know I'm a freak of nature for it!"

"No, the real miracle is I gave a single flip about YA! That is the challenging thing for me to feel because that is alien and foreign and that's why yer continued denial of who and what I am hurts because I let ya in and ya threw it in my face!" Shadow hissed, claws digging even more into the paper. "And that's why Link had to drag me away on Diagad because I would have hurt ya because here's the thing about my selfishness, we know for a fact I can kill countless innocents if it was getting in the way of what I wanted because I did it. I could kill my owner because I tried. This isn't me thinking wanting to be happy, or putting myself first, or whatever is bad, its knowing if I don't keep properly motivated, I could easily destroy lives for my own selfishness without a second thought. I love Link and Zelda and my owner and my princess enough to try and be better, but that doesn't change the fact I am that person. That I will always be capable of it."

He's shaking, leaning harder into Link. "And its not that they're heroes I love them. Their heroics is way low on the list of things for me to admire. I admire their courage, their determination, their will, and that goes into heroics, but its not the heroics I care about. I like Zelda's calm, I like her intelligence, I like how she views shadows. I like Link's spirit and humor and how crafty he is. I like how they both try to actually understand me and accept that I'm doing my best despite my flaws. That they helped me maintain my efforts when I was faltering. And I understand their loneliness and I just....want that to not be the case, and that is why I keep trying to help ya and Link because he loves ya so much and ya love him and he deserves it, because I would gladly drag 'em to a peaceful place if they would go too. But ya keep trying to say we're family, but I don't need a father, but I wanted to have someone I care about see me who I know was totally separated from a shadow impulse, but that is separate of ya and Link and ya two can fix it, but we can't because ya just. Won't. Look at me!"

[sevenyearsasleep]

Link was rethinking his intelligent man comment, the more Clef spoke, feeling and seeing Shadow's reaction beside him. But, he pushed that thought aside, as voicing it would have helped no one.

He'd address a lot of Clef had been saying, but, first, Shadow. Link shifted his stance so he could pull Shadow in with a one-armed hug. "Thank you," he said quietly. "Thank you for doing this. For helping arrange this. I know this is more than a little painful for you."

Link gave him a squeeze and added. "But, don't call yourself a freak of nature. You're unique. And eventually, he'll understand. Because, this is a hill I'm willing to die on."

He turned his gaze to Clef. "I think he answered your question about why it's all or nothing with us. But, that aside....why would you start yelling? I told you that you were hurting his feelings and your response was to double down and yell at us. I--I don't understand that. You seem to think that acknowledging someone's flaws is somehow loving them less. Is it because you can't accept your own flaws or something? Because, blindly loving someone isn't healthy. And it's not really love when you pretend the worst of a person doesn't exist."

Link took a deep breath and shook his head. "Are you capable of apologizing? Without following it up with a justification as to why you're right and we're wrong?" He hadn't meant it to come out as condescending, it was a sincere question, but frustration did creep into his words.

"I...think I need to point out to you that Zelda, Shadow, and I live in three different Hyrules. When Zelda sent me back, that Hyrule was basically sealed off from me. The Hyrule I live in has never seen Ganondorf take over. He was awaiting execution last I heard. Apparently spectators aren't allowed, and some sage is going to be executioner."

Link sighed. "That's why I'm not recognized as a hero back home, outside of the Zelda from that time. The things I did never happened there. I know who and what I am, but, no one else does. Shadow, is from a few centuries later. Between my time and his there have been a few crises because of that damned Gerudo."

He stopped and hesitated. "Sorry, that derailed a little. My point was, the three of us in one spot is pretty impressive. Whether it be here or in Nautilus. I'm grateful for the opportunity, every day. To be here with all of you." The last thing he wanted was for Clef to feel excluded by his comments, so he made sure to make eye contact with his last statement.